All the gear and no idea (breaking vanilla chains)

[YourNightmareMyDreams]

Hi to all,
I am pretty new to the scene although always wanting to try it out wasn't the easiest of topics of discussion with my fiancé. Until she didn't move out of bed for three days reading the 50shades series and after an uneasy argument one day she said the magic words I'd been waiting on, "why couldn't you be more like Christian grey?" Perfect! (Sorry ladies not a millionaire.)

My question to you all is how do I get her to open up and enjoy the experience, i naturally have dominant behaviour and couldnt see it any other way, for now not into any kind of hard pain i would honestly be happy just lashing her to the bed and having a pleasure for her session. were both learning and have had a few laughs and stressful moments but she is still very hesitant in most cases or stuck in her vanilla ways. We've already started filling a toy box but its collecting dust.

She's not too often in the mood, or te timing is not just right (we have 2 kids under 5) but when we do get that open window she just doesn't seem to be willing.

We have our limits set and both know the rules but she's just never keen. Am I barking up the wrong tree? Any games, opinions, or personal experiences that could help would be appreciated.

Cheers

 

[Smallest]

First off, I suggest you read the "Did you come here because of Fifty Shades" thread and, of course, the Newcomer's Faq at the top of this section. I also think you should ask your wife to read them.

The Fifty Shades thread is really snarky, so warn her about it (or have her read this post). No one there is trying to be rude to people who enjoyed Fifty Shades, it's just a hard point to discuss seriously. The post in the FAQ about Fifty Shades is a little more polite, but the thread is more encompassing. There is also a post in the FAQ about turning a vanilla spouse kinky, so that might help you (although it's geared toward submissives needing a dom).

Despite the fact that those two posts would be the most help to you, read the whole thing, and try to get her to as well (If/when you read this, YNMD's wife, please read the whole thing), as it will both help clear up some misconceptions either of you have and also give you ideas both of what to do together, and what you might want to ask for more help on in this thread or another (and please do ask about whatever concerns you).

Last, talk to her. All the time, about everything. BDSM is about communication, and it's only safe with communication. You have to talk to her about this problem, although coming to the forum is a great start on getting outside advice.

 

[sebastian]

I second everything Smallest said. At this point, the two best things for you and your fiance to do are read some non-fiction that can help you understand some of the basics of BDSM (what it is and what it isn't), and talk with each other about what you might want to try, what you don't want to try (at least right now) and what turns you on about all of this stuff. If you choose to play with BDSM, set a safe word so that your wife can stop things if they're getting too rough/scary for her, and so you know that she's enjoying herself (if she's not safe-wording, she's enjoying herself) when you're getting rough.

Definitely read the two threads she suggested. 50 Shades is a touchy subject with most kinksters, because we generally feel it's unrealistic in its presentation of BDSM. So a lot of us are sort of cranky about it. But if 50 Shades got your wife to realize she might enjoy BDSM, great!

 

[stanley_jeffries]

Welcome to the board. Your situation sounds very promising, and it's great that you recognise you're going to have to work on your girlfriend's "mood", even though she's asking you to be dominant.

Having kids around is a bit of a challenge when it comes to S&M play. You might think the obvious solution is to arrange an overnight with grandparents and just "go for it". But the kind of anticiptaiton pressure this kind of "big night" builds up can sometimes turn a woman off. After all, your girlfriend will already have the usual stresses of looking after two children - despite you helping out it's always the mum who bears most of the stress. Her idea of a treat might just be to take a long soak in a bubble bath!

One suggestion I would make is to point out that "domination" can be a purely psychological situation. Word play is extremely powerful.

OK...so imagine a regular evening. Once the kids are in bed, do you have some time together to just relax and talk? I don't mean watching TV...but some time when you just say stuff to each other? Ask about her day...tell her about your day...find out how she's feeling, etc. Keep it light, and don't escalate anything into an argument! Try to say something funny...make her laugh, and don't forget to tell her that you love her.

Don't rush it, but if you feel she's relaxing, drop something into the conversation. Example...

YOU: "This whole 50 shades of Grey thing seems to have released a lot of pent up fanatasies in the population."

HER: Maybe she grunts agreement.

At this point you can go two ways: Passive or Dominant. It's important that you do not seem to be initiating sex in either approach. Instead you need to focus on being sensual...lots of touching, but don't be groping her, and try to keep a certain amount of distance between you (obviously closer than arms length, but penetrate her personal space with your hand or arm, and not the rest of your body).

Passive approach:

Reach out and hold her hand gently. Stroke it for a few seconds.
"Why don't you tell me about your fantasies?"

I would use the passive approach if you feel you still need to get her to open up. But it sounds to me like the dominant approach is where you are at:



Dominant approach:
Reach up and place your hand on her cheek. Move her head so she's looking at you. Keep your hand on her cheek, but use your thumb to stroke her lips. Keep your distance, and maintain eye contact. Because you're stroking her lips it's unlikely she'll say anything at this point, so leave a "gaping silence" for a few seconds. Then say:
"You're going to confess your fantasies to me. All of them."

She may try to look away...even to move away. If she does, try to gauge her level of discomfort.

If she's just embarrassed, and not trying to physically move away from you, keep your hand on her cheek, and keep forcing her to look at you. A stronger way to control her with your hand is to hold her jaw with your hand. There's no need to be rough...just be gentle, but firm.

Say something like...

"You know you're going to do as I tell you...it's just a matter of time. You need to confess it to somebody...I want it to be me."


If she really wants to move away, then let her go, and maybe she gets up and walks away. Give her a few seconds, and then walk over to her. She'll probably be facing away from you, so kiss her on the back of the neck and whisper:

"If you were tied down you couldn't walk away from me, could you?"

Don't wait for her to answer...just walk away...go back to the chair and turn on the TV...or pick up a magazine or something that shows you are not going to pressure her anymore.

Maybe she comes back to the chair, or maybe not. But either way you've shown her that you can be dominant - if she consents.



OK...let's say she didn't walk away, or that she came back. You're back in the position of sitting slightly apart from her, and reaching into her personal space with your hand. It's your hand that is controlling her.

If she tries to touch you, tell her to stay where she is and keep her hands by her sides.


You can see why you don't want a TV as a distraction for this! The idea is to get her talking, without her feeling that you're initiating sex, except it's very likely that talking about her fantasies will turn her on.

If she does start to open up, you might want to prepare some general responses in your head to hold in reserve. Remember - in real life we don't have script writers to help us, so think about things you might do to keep the "domination" rolling.

For example...you have your hand on her cheek, and your thumb stroking her lips. So now slide your thumb into her mouth and "make her" suck it. If you feel it's appropriate to the mood, maybe point out how good she is at sucking cock...and (again, depending on your situation and her mood) perhaps tell her she must have got so much practice at doing it. That can go in the direction of her being a "slut and a cocksucker, and loving being both".

If it does turn her on, that's great. Go with it, but don't use any bondage or CP. You need to keep dominating her with words, and perhaps by holding her down as you make love.

Remember that she recently had two kids. She almost certainly wants to feel that you still love her, and more importantly that you still find her sexy. Once she has started to open up, tell her how much the idea of her being your slave turns you on. Tell her that no other woman could give you that kind of feeling of power.

Be prepared not to have sex that night...but I suspect that giving her the chance to talk about her fantasies will lead to something.




As Smallest and Sebastian have both indicated - 50 Shades is not a good example of a sub/Dom relationship. However...it's great that it's ignited this communication between you, but just don't use it for ideas!



I assume you already run the risk of the kids walking in on a "normal" love making interlude - that's just the way it is with young kids around. But by focusing on verbal domination and gentle "holding down" at least they won't witness anything obvioously kinky if they do happen to walk in. I suspect that would be a big factor in your girlfriend's seeming reluctance, by the way.

I hope things go well.


Cheers,
Stanley

 

[YourNightmareMyDreams]

Thanks, I personally have not read the book and that's not the reason I'm stepping up, always been interested but could never express what I wanted as it is still a pretty frowned upon subject and didn't want the misses losing it over something like this. When I did finally speak my mind we weren't in the best state of a relationship but have since grown closer together and communicated like never before. The parameters of our limits were set and are pretty much sticking to soft limits for now. We find a little pleasure in pain but aren't beating each other if that's what your saying (I know the lifestyle choice and what were getting into.) the forum was not my first source of information when doing my research and and fully understand and abide by the rules set out by the community. We have set a safe word and I do not push with anything I feel she would be uncomfortable

What I was doing was explaining a basic outline of out situation and asking for advice, personal experiences had with new comers or any such games that take a bit of the tension out of the situation once in a role.

 

[YourNightmareMyDreams]

And Stanley a great read

Cheers

 

[sawdustchuck]

Welcome to the group. I am as Vanilla as they get though I'm ancient. My wife also read the 50 shades of Grey and although the books are not thought very highly here they did in fact open my wife's eyes to a whole new world.
I believe you already have an opening for any discussion when she stated "why couldn't you be more like Christian grey". In the book there was something that aroused a feeling she liked or a fantasy she has thought of. Take your time in discovering what it is she found exciting about the book. The book itself should give you some clues.
My wife shared that being tied up sounded exciting and having her breast played with. But when asked what her sexual fantasy's are she stated she didn't have any. Like I said at the beginning I'm very new to this but grateful for what the book has brought out for us. So now as a couple we will experiment to see what she does and doesn't like. What's hard for me to understand is her not having any fantasy's or dreams about sex, but then again I'm a guy and what do we know about women?
The important part of all this is you won't have to wait till your in your late 60's to find out what she may or may not like. Best of luck and again welcome to the group.

 

[Smallest]

asking for advice, personal experiences had with new comers or any such games that take a bit of the tension out of the situation once in a role.

I thought that was what we all did? There is an actual game somewhere on the first page of the forum that someone made, you could try that. There are also a lot of threads similar to this one, but with more specific questions, wherein people have written long explanations of scenes to those OPs- perhaps you should graze back and try that out? It's hard to give advice based on so little.

 

[YourNightmareMyDreams]

Understand an I didn't mean to repeat myself like that everything has been taken on board, I will get around to reading those posts when I can and thank you. Everything has been direct and to the point.

Stanley thanks for the story it's a little easier to understand seeing out A small roe play from the 3rd person. I can't just read her a script unfortunately as the human mind and emotional response will vary for all. My misses is surely not one I'd like to upset as there's no escaping her wrath at home and I will pay for it later. A few key points dearly noted though thanks

Sawdust chuck, exactly what I was after ultimately. Good to know their are others out their in the same sort of situation. I find some comfort in the fact that you and your partner are working through things and discovering them together as in my own situation. Just wanted to know if with what I was experiencing with my misses was leading me down a path where I'd have to pack up my own fantasies as quick as I disclosed them.

I understand communication is the key and we have spoke about things thoroughly together, but never a conversation that has just been 100% focus between me an my partner, always talking over the tv or something. I have had many of conversations with her about the topics of the scenes and topics of bdsm but ultimately think there's still more talking to be had between my partner and myself. To strengthen what we have together.

 

[stanley_jeffries]

>>>Stanley thanks for the story it's a little easier to understand seeing out A small roe play from the 3rd person. I can't just read her a script unfortunately as the human mind and emotional response will vary for all. My misses is surely not one I'd like to upset as there's no escaping her wrath at home and I will pay for it later. A few key points dearly noted though thanks


I agree. I wasn't really trying to give you a script as such because you're totally right that human reactions cannot be predicted. But I suppose what I was trying to do is illustrate a starting point for a conversation, but then to suggest that you will need to prepare possible responses to what she might say, or how she might react.

I'd liken this to a game of chess. Once you make a few moves the number of possible responses by your opponent explodes. But you can still plan for the most likely of those responses.




It may have been lost in my long post (sorry), but one of the points I was trying to make is that if she seems not to be responding instantly to sexual advances it's probably because she has other things on her mind.

In other words, whenever you start to talk about domination and submission she assumes you're just wanting sex - and she may not be in that kind of mood.

This is why I'm suggesting you need to make it clear that you want to talk, and not just have sex.



By the way...kids are a natural contraceptive! When they are around we don't like to think about sex. When we get them out of the picture for a few hours, the stress of knowing you have to "perform" in that time window is a real turn-off, especially for a woman.

It's not that way for men. We can go from "asleep" to "horny" in a matter of seconds - women just can't do that.




>>> My misses is surely not one I'd like to upset as there's no escaping her wrath at home and I will pay for it later.


As somebody who'd been married for over thirty years I hear you


I think you need to make it clear to her that you are trying to respond to something that she brought up (you said she asked you "why couldn't you be more like Christian Grey?"). And tell her that you are very interested in exploring that fantasy too. Hopefully then she will respond well, especially if she feels she's not under too much pressure.

You mentioned that conversations you've had tend to happen over the TV, and aren't really getting to the point. Have you thought about writing her a note, or an email? If you do that, don't go into details...just say something like...

• I think you're even more beautiful than the day we met.
• A while back you said something that was really interesting for me (tell her what she said).
• If you really want to explore that fantasy, I want you to understand that I want that too.
• I don't want to blunder into something like that without talking it through with you, because I would never want to hurt you, or to make you do anything that you don't want to.
• We have all the time in the world together, but if this is something that would make you happier then let's talk about it soon.

Cheers,
Stanley