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BetThisOnesFree · Jun 28, 2012

Hi guys, Im new here, and a lot of what Ive been hearing about BDSM is around older people than me-- like people in their 40's and 50s and Im only 19 and just now realized I was into this its so fun and I really need to find a girl to do it with but I just wanted to ask all of you questions that Im talking about with my therapist-- basically, Im not entirely convince that the urges/ fantasies Im having are healthy. Ive never actually acted on my fantasies so their not a problem or part of my behavior (theyre still just in my head) but they always involve a sense of power-- like anything related to power turns me on-- like being a dom means having power and using it to control the sub which is a huge turn on to me and i can relate it to entire nations having complete control over other nations and i can just get off on the thought of how much we are dominating Iraq, and i also get off on the one being dominated, but I enjoy being the one dominating a little more probably cuz Im a guy. but my question to all of u is is this shit normal? It seems fucked up and sick and twisted. I was watching a nat geo show about a girl who gets raped/tortured by a sadist and it got me SOOO excited... i would never do anything like this in real life but the part where she discussed how she got raped, i just couldnt control myself. I also feel contempt when I discuss these things with my therapist, like I enjoy how shocked and appalled people are when i tell them these fantasies i have. its like i have power over them cuz they are afraid of me or something. off track again but my Q is what the hell determines if someone is into this sick shit??? i had a pretty good childhood, cant remember any abuse, so why the fuck do i get off on this sick shit?
Also, what was it like when u first realized u were into bdsm? Was it a total shock like me, and did u think there was something wrong with u? also, what was ur first experience with bdsm actually doing it with someone else who u trust? was it nervracking at first? thanks

sebastian · Jun 28, 2012

It's estimated that 10% of the population is interested in BDSM in some fashion. That means we're a minority. So BDSM is not normal, if by 'normal' you mean 'typical'. Being gay isn't normal either, by that definition.

But just because a majority of people do not share one's sexual tastes doesn't mean that one's tastes are unhealthy or pathological. For me, and for many doms and subs, BDSM is a very healthy way to balance out the social pressures we feel. Many subs are very dominant in social and career settings, and find being submissive a way to put down the pressures of being in charge. Many doms, like me, are very nurturing, caring people, for whom being dominant is a way to make sure that our emotional needs are getting met and that we don't give away too much of ourselves. For some women, being dominant is a way to express a portion of their personality that society generally discourages, and the same is true for submissive men. I don't think there is any inherent connection between being male and being dominant. In fact, I'd being slightly inclined to say that it's the opposite.

There is a vast difference between one's fantasies and what one would do in reality. While I find the fantasy of raping a guy very arousing, I would absolutely never do that in reality. What I enjoy is the opportunity to play out that fantasy with a willing 'victim'. BDSM is all about consent. That's what keeps it from being abuse, and that's why it's not a form of mental illness. Your therapist should know that--BDSM is no longer in the DSM (the bible of mental health diagnostics). If your therapist is convinced that your desire for BDSM is the problem, then you need to get a new therapist, because working with this one is going to really fuck you up.

Read through the Newcomer's FAQ. You'll find some posts that should help you make sense of these issues.

Smallest · Jun 28, 2012

BetThisOnesFree said:
my Q is what the hell determines if someone is into this sick shit??? i had a pretty good childhood, cant remember any abuse, so why the fuck do i get off on this sick shit?

Also, what was it like when u first realized u were into bdsm?
Was it a total shock like me, and did u think there was something wrong with u? also, what was ur first experience with bdsm actually doing it with someone else who u trust?
was it nerve wracking at first? thanks

First off, I am so apathetic, but you're going to offend SOMEONE here calling it 'sick shit.' That, or make some other new member think that his/her tastes are wrong. (@New Member: They are not)

Nothing 'determines' if you're into BDSM. There is no causation from abuse that can be proven, that is a rumour. It's just a preference. Some people prefer gentle sex and equality, some like it rough with total power exhange. Some people like blondes and some like brunettes, some people prefer oral to vaginal to anal, etc. It's just a thing you enjoy/prefer. Everyone has fantasies. There's nothing wrong with you, as long as you don't really want to harm or rape something (in that case, it is no longer BDSM). BDSM is about consent and enjoyment for all involved.

When I first discovered I was into BDSM, I wasn't really shocked. I didn't really 'discover' it per se, as I'd had thoughts about it just mildly before (ie rape or kidnapping fantasies, interest in blindfolds, etc). And I didn't really think anything was wrong with that, so I didn't care. It came up in a discussion with my then-boyfriend (now master) and we started experimenting, and our dynamic has changed over time.

My first experience was being blindfolded, held down while I struggled, and having my wrists tied with a belt. We tried more bondage with ropes later on. This was, again, with my Master who I'd been with and definitely trusted, although I think as long as you're sure they won't break your hard limits, rape you, or kill you, that's enough trust to start with. Obviously safety precautions must be taken with a new partner.

And I second Sebastian, read the FAQ.

BetThisOnesFree · Jun 28, 2012

sebastian said:
It's estimated that 10% of the population is interested in BDSM in some fashion. That means we're a minority. So BDSM is not normal, if by 'normal' you mean 'typical'. Being gay isn't normal either, by that definition.

But just because a majority of people do not share one's sexual tastes doesn't mean that one's tastes are unhealthy or pathological. For me, and for many doms and subs, BDSM is a very healthy way to balance out the social pressures we feel. Many subs are very dominant in social and career settings, and find being submissive a way to put down the pressures of being in charge. Many doms, like me, are very nurturing, caring people, for whom being dominant is a way to make sure that our emotional needs are getting met and that we don't give away too much of ourselves. For some women, being dominant is a way to express a portion of their personality that society generally discourages, and the same is true for submissive men. I don't think there is any inherent connection between being male and being dominant. In fact, I'd being slightly inclined to say that it's the opposite.

There is a vast difference between one's fantasies and what one would do in reality. While I find the fantasy of raping a guy very arousing, I would absolutely never do that in reality. What I enjoy is the opportunity to play out that fantasy with a willing 'victim'. BDSM is all about consent. That's what keeps it from being abuse, and that's why it's not a form of mental illness. Your therapist should know that--BDSM is no longer in the DSM (the bible of mental health diagnostics). If your therapist is convinced that your desire for BDSM is the problem, then you need to get a new therapist, because working with this one is going to really fuck you up.

Read through the Newcomer's FAQ. You'll find some posts that should help you make sense of these issues.

wow, very informational, thanks a lot, and my therapist is great, shes telling me that the fantasies/sexual triggers Im experiencing are NOT bad/weird/pathological, its ME who thinks they are! haha I guess I should lighten up though and realize wat everyones telling me, that unless I actually gag the next hot chick i see and stuff her in my car that these urges are not a problem. But if this is normal, or at least not pathological, why does society put so much taboo on it?

Smallest said:
First off, I am so apathetic, but you're going to offend SOMEONE here calling it 'sick shit.' That, or make some other new member think that his/her tastes are wrong. (@New Member: They are not)

Nothing 'determines' if you're into BDSM. There is no causation from abuse that can be proven, that is a rumour. It's just a preference. Some people prefer gentle sex and equality, some like it rough with total power exhange. Some people like blondes and some like brunettes, some people prefer oral to vaginal to anal, etc. It's just a thing you enjoy/prefer. Everyone has fantasies. There's nothing wrong with you, as long as you don't really want to harm or rape something (in that case, it is no longer BDSM). BDSM is about consent and enjoyment for all involved.

When I first discovered I was into BDSM, I wasn't really shocked. I didn't really 'discover' it per se, as I'd had thoughts about it just mildly before (ie rape or kidnapping fantasies, interest in blindfolds, etc). And I didn't really think anything was wrong with that, so I didn't care. It came up in a discussion with my then-boyfriend (now master) and we started experimenting, and our dynamic has changed over time.

My first experience was being blindfolded, held down while I struggled, and having my wrists tied with a belt. We tried more bondage with ropes later on. This was, again, with my Master who I'd been with and definitely trusted, although I think as long as you're sure they won't break your hard limits, rape you, or kill you, that's enough trust to start with. Obviously safety precautions must be taken with a new partner.

And I second Sebastian, read the FAQ.

if it is offensive to call it sick shit then let someone get offended, its not exactly pretty, and i love the fact that its sick and twisted, never said it was bad

Smallest · Jun 28, 2012

Even if you don't mean it, not everyone knows. It's more the worry for someone who's new and unsure seeing it and thinking they're doing something wrong than offending someone who knows.

And on your reply to Sebastian, we've talked about it a lot. It is becoming more and more mainstream, but it's the sort of thing that comes in and out of fashion somehow :/ In any case, I wouldn't worry, and your therapist sounds like a good one.

sebastian · Jun 28, 2012

Bet: I can understand why you like thinking of it as 'sick and twisted'. One element of a fetish is that it's taboo, and some people get off on the fact that they're violating a taboo (this is called being transgressive). So if thinking of yourself as a sick pervert gets you hard, by all means work that into your fantasies. But Smallest is right; calling it sick will offend some people, and it will scare others off. So by all means make transgressing one of your fetishes, but make it clear that you don't think it's objectively sick; say that it's part of your fetish to think of it that way. One of the rules of the BDSM is the principle of "Your Kink Is Not My Kink, But Your Kink Is Ok", meaning your fetish doesn't turn me on, but that's ok, I don't think you're a monster for having your fetish. The general exceptions to this rule are things that violate consent (rape, sex with minors, sex with corpses, animals, or the mentally retarded, and so on).

As for why society doesn't understand it, the basic answer is because it violates society's rules about acceptable behavior. Modern society places a high value on egalitarian relationships and everyone's right to do as they please. BDSM challenges those ideas quite aggressive--maybe we don't all want to be equal, maybe we don't all want freedom. A century ago, when society was somewhat more comfortable with social inequality, people who wanted egalitarian relationships were seen as strange--many people argued that letting women work outside the home would undermine a husband's ability to control his wife. So what was kinky then was less kinky today, and what's kinky today was less kinky then.

Another factor is that all of our media presents BDSM in negative ways. In some cases, it's played as a joke (think of the movie version of Exit to Eden, which was a serious BDSM novel turned into a shitty buddy-cop comedy staring those acclaimed sex symbols Dan Ackroyd and Rosie O'Donnell. If it's played seriously, male doms are psychotic killers, femdommes are ball-busting man-hating semi-dykes, male subs are pathetic jokes, and femsubs are murder victims. With those sorts of ideas out in society, it's no wonder we don't get much respect.

BetThisOnesFree · Jun 29, 2012

Smallest said:
Even if you don't mean it, not everyone knows. It's more the worry for someone who's new and unsure seeing it and thinking they're doing something wrong than offending someone who knows.

And on your reply to Sebastian, we've talked about it a lot. It is becoming more and more mainstream, but it's the sort of thing that comes in and out of fashion somehow :/ In any case, I wouldn't worry, and your therapist sounds like a good one.

sorry i was in a bad mood when I replied, I hadnt exercised yet... Im always in a shit mood before I exercise... now Im in a great mood! Bipoloar ftw. but yea its definitley fun to think of it as a taboo. i think cuz it brings attention to you because you are so different from the norm, and who doesnt like attention?? and now that I think about it, I kinda like it being not-so-mainstream... if it was normal and accepted it would just be boring! ha

sebastian said:
Bet: I can understand why you like thinking of it as 'sick and twisted'. One element of a fetish is that it's taboo, and some people get off on the fact that they're violating a taboo (this is called being transgressive). So if thinking of yourself as a sick pervert gets you hard, by all means work that into your fantasies. But Smallest is right; calling it sick will offend some people, and it will scare others off. So by all means make transgressing one of your fetishes, but make it clear that you don't think it's objectively sick; say that it's part of your fetish to think of it that way. One of the rules of the BDSM is the principle of "Your Kink Is Not My Kink, But Your Kink Is Ok", meaning your fetish doesn't turn me on, but that's ok, I don't think you're a monster for having your fetish. The general exceptions to this rule are things that violate consent (rape, sex with minors, sex with corpses, animals, or the mentally retarded, and so on).

As for why society doesn't understand it, the basic answer is because it violates society's rules about acceptable behavior. Modern society places a high value on egalitarian relationships and everyone's right to do as they please. BDSM challenges those ideas quite aggressive--maybe we don't all want to be equal, maybe we don't all want freedom. A century ago, when society was somewhat more comfortable with social inequality, people who wanted egalitarian relationships were seen as strange--many people argued that letting women work outside the home would undermine a husband's ability to control his wife. So what was kinky then was less kinky today, and what's kinky today was less kinky then.

Another factor is that all of our media presents BDSM in negative ways. In some cases, it's played as a joke (think of the movie version of Exit to Eden, which was a serious BDSM novel turned into a shitty buddy-cop comedy staring those acclaimed sex symbols Dan Ackroyd and Rosie O'Donnell. If it's played seriously, male doms are psychotic killers, femdommes are ball-busting man-hating semi-dykes, male subs are pathetic jokes, and femsubs are murder victims. With those sorts of ideas out in society, it's no wonder we don't get much respect.

haha that movie sounds funny, ill look it up, and i def see what ur saying about how bad it can look if people took bdsm seriously. can i also ask you what it was like when u first discovered u were into bdsm? was it scary/shocking? did u think there was something wrong with u? what was ur first bdsm experience like? i want to find someone to experiment with but i dont know where to start but i live in manhattan so im sure i could easily find like a club or something

sebastian · Jun 29, 2012

I realized I was dominant about 3 years ago, largely as the result of chatting with a slave online. It was really a sudden revelation. In the space of a few seconds, my life suddenly made sense in a new way. So it wasn't scary or shocking at all--it was really a sort of lightbulb moment. And since then, I've felt much...wholer than I did before.

subarama30 · Jun 29, 2012

I think it's normal to feel like you're a bit of an outsider when you first have these thoughts/feelings, especially when you are young and you see the general media's approach to bdsm.

Personally I knew I liked things that were 'different' when I was 11/12. Back then just reading vampire books made me a freak to those around me. So when I started to realise certain things were exciting in my teens it didn't bother me that much but I didn't open up to anyone about them. I didn't think there was something wrong with me but that someone else might!

I didn't get any real experience of anything till I was about 16 with a much older guy. He was an abusive asshole it turned out but he was my first proper introduction to bdsm and there was aspects of our interaction that I loved but I was worried how any future guys would take what I liked, that it made me weird/freak to many. It took me years to open up to my fiancé about what I really liked.

LilBunny · Jun 29, 2012

Bet,
I'm like you, I had a near perfect childhood, so don't think there is any deciding factor on who's kinky and who's not. I don't think I ever had any "vanilla" ideas about sex, because I can remember discovering masturbation at ayoung age when I found some bondage pics in a friend of the family's house. Then in my 20's I read The Sleeping Beauty books and something clicked for me.

On the flip side of that, up until about seven yrs ago I never told anybody. Sure, I liked rough sex, but that was all anyone I was with ever saw. Then I got with my now-husband, and he likes to spank.

Slowly he has pulled my kink out of me, and I gotta say I feel more comfortable with my self now than I ever have. It's amazing what a difference it can make when you accept yourself for who you are, and embrace every side, even your kink.

In short (too late, haha) you are as normal as any other human on the planet, which is to say there is no such thing as "normal". Normal is boring, anyway. It sounds like you have a really good therapist, and I wish you all the best. Hope my rambling didn't confuse the issue, lol.

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