Maintaining a Relationship where only one partner is into BDSM...

VanillaSpouse · Apr 19, 2010

I'm married for about 18 months, and together with my husband for about 9 years now. My introduction will be a little wordy, but please bear with me, I'm keen to do this right. I need some help getting into the right frame of mind to support my husband.

Shortly before our wedding, my husband finally told me that he was really into tying up, the selfbound stuff, and used to have a stash of toys and things hidden around the apartment for when I was out of town (but got rid of most of them when the fear I would find them got too much). I knew that he was interested in bondage porn but I thought - it's just porn = just pictures, right? Like looking at other girls in porn movies doesn't mean you're actually having sex with them!

Anyway, this made me quite uncomfortable. Not the props and so on, but the fact that someone you're about to make such a huge commitment to has this whole other life, this totally secret side of their character... it was harder to deal with because "if he's hidden this from me for 6 years, what else is he hiding now?!" There were a couple of other things (not BDSM related, but sex-related) I'd learned at earlier stages that he'd hidden from me before, so getting over the lack of trust is a painful hurdle, even though I can understand why he'd be loath to tell me. We did experiment with it once or twice but I'm not really turned on by submissive men although I did my best with the knots and stuff - I don't know any of the ties!, and to be honest I was kinda grateful when it slid out of sight again. Selfish, I know :-(

Anyway, there's more to it. I've been working away, on and off, for most of the last 6 months, so now that I'm back.. we had a heart to heart about a week or so and a fair bit more detail came out. This is all new stuff he's been trying, elaborations on the fantasies, more props, etc. I've been reading around a bit this week, trying to find as much information as I can to support him, but I don't know where to start. Where is a good place? I mean, all the BDSM links on getting started are for people who enjoy it, maybe who have been liking restraints or the idea of restraint since they were kids. There's not much for the poor ol' vanilla girl gritting her teeth and trying to find a starting point!!

The other thing is, it seems like there is such a strong BDSM community, websites, forums, specialist shops, fetish fairs and all that he visits regularly (it would have been nice if he'd asked me to go with him to the London Fetish Fair, as I was here at the time... I had actually intended to ask him about it when I got the flyer, knowing his interests, but I forgot!)

I suppose what I'm trying to say is, I feel really left behind. I don't know where to start. It doesn't really turn me on at all - well, maybe only when I'm the sub but then I have a low pain threshold and get bored fast! Being the dom does nothing for me, but it is massively important to my husband and after all it's taken for him to share this with me, I don't want to be as threatened by it as I am. My husband would love nothing more than to go to torture garden parties, go to a couple of fetish nights together as my slave etc, and I want to enjoy it together - it just seems like this is something that's gonna gather steam and as it's obvious it's not for me, I'm threatened by it because the more I encourage him getting into the scene, the more chance there is he'll leave me in the dust for something more adventurous that's more sexually compatible!! Confidence is sexy and I really don't have much confidence in myself as a dom! His favourite saying is "life's too short and I want to experience as much as possible", and I know, it's greedy and selfish of me but I don't want to share him with a ball gag - cos after that it's the ring gag, after that it's the hood and after that it's the suspension hooks in the living room ceiling...!

It just seems like something that gathers speed as it goes on.. I don't know. I suppose on one hand I'm wondering, how do I get him to slow down, remember that this is a bit fast for me - he may have been doing this for years and fantasising about it for longer, but I'm feeling a little bit overloaded here! On the other hand, I don't want to slap him down again after it has taken so long to get to this point. But going from a confession one week, to mentioning involving other people the next, is a bit much for me. How do I do this? How can I get over my fears - that's assuming they're are irrational as I hope they are - and get through this? I don't want to go backwards, but I feel on very rocky ground right now and I just don't know how to go forwards.

Sorry if this seems like more of a venting post than an advice seeking post... anything you can tell me about your starting points - or more importantly how you managed steering your relationship through these new adventures - would be really helpful. Do you think one fetish partner/one vanilla partner is something that can work, long-term? I am posting here, because I looked around and this seems like an active forum with users who know their stuff, so I'm hoping one of you will get back to me before too long.

Thanks for reading, I know it's been a monster post!

sillylittlepet · Apr 19, 2010

wow, whoa, jeez, okay

first thing is first. START SLOW. I know your husband wants to do all this crazy stuff and its really overwhelming, but start really small.
As long as you're not disgusted or weirded out, then there's totally room to make this work. You seem to have gone through a lot of literature, which is great but dont try it all at once.
Tell your husband that a. the two of you are going to move at your pace (even easier since he wants you to domme) and b. secrets are absolutely not allowed.

what kinds of things do you find to be sort of hot (that can be skewed as bdsm related)? Light bondage? A few slaps on the ass? A little bit of hair pulling? Name calling? When you have sex, straddle him and take control. There are lots of vanilla things that are one the bdsm line. Start in this area, if your husband wants more and you're not ready yet then tough luck for him. This is critical, I cant even stress it enough.

You could have your husband make a list of things that turn him on. Cross off all your hard limits (things you would never do no matter how much he begged), put a star next to your soft limits (things you would be willing to try but not yet/would need some convincing) and highlight everything you think it doable right now or in the short term.

If time goes on and you really just cant get past the small stuff then I dont know what to tell you, but its nice to see that you're willing it give it all you've got!

master jey · Apr 19, 2010

try to satisfy him or sooner or later he'll start walking on the left side as i did with my vanilla "partner"
it's not easy for you but try to like the stuff you aren't into thats the way and well if you are good with it let him hire professional domme

and let me ask do you have a fetish or two or a fantasy?

VanillaSpouse · Apr 19, 2010

Hi, thanks for getting back to me.

@sillylittlepet: No, I'm not weirded out at all.. not even when seeing him "dressed up", or really by anything he asked me to do. That's all fine. But the.. the role play bit, which involved a bit of gender-reversal, that was a bit strange. And it does sort of grate on you being called Mistress if you're not used to it! I've not really refused to do anything, well anything in the bedroom, it's just the part where this leaves the bedroom and takes us out in the street. Involving anyone else, or going out to public events where I would feel very much out of my depth, no I'm not comfortable with that.

@master jey: that's exactly what I'm afraid of. Y_Y From what I'm seeing at the moment... It looks like a balance between "good relationship" and "life's too short" and as soon as the "life's too short" side starts weighing a bit heavier or the relationship hits a bad patch, and he starts weighing up all the things he'd regret not doing, that'll be it.

Of course I have fantasies - I'm a bit on the bi side and he loves me to kiss other girls in front of him, or just kiss girls and tell him about it, so I've done that 4 or 5 times. But I'd never have done any of that if we hadn't talked about it a lot first, or unless I was sure that he would be fine with it (I knew it went beyond fine, he was delighted!) but it's not an area that I particularly want to develop beyond a kiss or the realms of fantasy. I don't really believe that you can introduce group sex into a marriage that easily after so long being monogamous... not if what you really want is it to stay as it is, and especially not if one of you (me) gets jealous.

So it doubly killed it for me when I learned that he'd kissed some other girls too, because that one I didn't see coming. We never talked about *that* beforehand, or even at the time, it only came out a year later - after I kissed a girlfriend one night for the first time and really wanted to share the experience with him. I hate being caught by surprise like that, especially when I play by the rules and communicate as much as possible. It's like, I do something that was originally a fantasy of mine, that he's always wanted me to share with him, then he cuts me out for years from what HE wants to do and then expects me to catch up all at once?!

And that's kind of what I need help with. I'm sure so many people must have had trouble communicating this side of their natures to their partners. But I'm on the other side and I know it's difficult but I don't know how to get over the secrecy and stuff. How to not just accept it, but work it into our relationship so that we're both happy with it?

I never saw the sexual element of my marriage becoming open to other people, to be honest... and the professional domme? Bloody hell, no way! Ok, I think I've identified a hard limit, right there.

(Well, the domme maybe in a year or two, no sexual contact, and only if I can watch and take notes

L8NightQ · Apr 19, 2010

VanillaSpouse -
There is something missing in your explanation Vanilla. What was that first conversation like (when he told you)? Did you guys deal with this at all (did you have a clue) in the 6 years that you dated? It sounds like you had sex during that term but it was vanilla, but he must have kept it suppressed. How did he do that?

I have seen this kind of thing on several occasions. It doesn't end well most of the time.

Your new husband has taken your acceptance of his fetish as permission to move forward with it, even at the cost of his fidelity.

The most important thing for you guys to do is to have a real heart to heart discussion about what he wants to do, what his love means to him (and to you), and how he sees your relationship.
Admitting, and even accepting that one has a fetish does not always mean that you accept his infidelity. But it looks like he took it that way.

I was married to a vanilla for 13 years and our divorce had nothing to do with my love for bondage or Dominance. I kept it in check because I loved her and was committed to her. To be fair to you I will tell you that it was drug abuse, and associated depression that caused me to leave the relationship.

There are many things that lurk inside us that we keep in check because of love, responsibility, parenthood, and other things.... and the key to any really successful relationship is for "each of you" to value your partners happiness and well being more than your own. Does he feel this way? Does he know you hurt?, or that you feel like you are loosing him? Who really bears the responsibility of this fetish? It sounds like you are, all by yourself.

I have said before.... We can't really control who or what we are attracted to. We "can", however, control what we do about it...... and the measure of a man, including yours, is not the size of his appetites, but how he controls them.

We in this community seek others of our own kind, but I for one do not excuse anyone who goes into a marriage, knowing that he or she can't keep their commitment.
The question for you is, what are your options?

Master Jey made a very good point. If you can't satisfy him, now that the beast is released, then he may very well stray. But if he really loves you, he may be willing to go down your road a little so that you guys can switch up from time to time. Find out where is head is, and his heart also.

The bottom line is that your husband seems to be very different from your boyfriend and you need to find out if your boyfriend is coming back, at least to meet you halfway.

I can feel your pain, frustration, and sense of loss. I'm just trying to give it to you straight so that you can figure out some realistic ways of approaching this.

Also, as strange as it may seem, there are some counselors that deal with this. You should be able to contact a bondage or D/s support group to get referrals.

If it doesn't work out with anything else.... You could always leave him for a while, an see if he misses you. If he does, then you have something to talk about. If he doesn't, it's best you know now.

Good luck.

master jey · Apr 19, 2010

it's just too complicated
good luck to you guys

VanillaSpouse · Apr 19, 2010

Oh sorry, I'll clear up those points. In 6 years, no, I didn't really have a clue. We got together at university - maybe I was too naive to see the signs were there!! He had a pair of leather cuffs from a previous relationship, and something else - can't remember what it was now - that the ex had brought him from Amsterdam. I made him get rid of those because, well, the thought of someone using the same sex toys on you as on their previous girlfriend... eww, no, especially not when I knew her! Realised, thinking about it, a little while after he told me that his high school girlfriend knew all this... and his fiancee of 6 years was clueless. :s Maybe it's stupid but that's a little ouch right there, still!

After university we went to do post-graduate studies, living in 2 different cities, and since he wouldn't fly, I came to visit him every 6 weeks or so. That was the main point where it diverged from fantasy from what I can tell - this was a few years ago and well, the first time a guy gets broadband in his bedroom and an address where his mum ain't gonna open his mail... (Edited this post to add: we were living apart for the first 2 years, and then long-distance for a year, so there were times when he could be more or less into tying and I wouldn't ever have known about it. It seems to be something that comes on really strong for a while and then he can put it out of his mind when things are going well between us - like, I suppose, after we moved in together, and he dumped most of his stuff before the move. Then he picked up a few bits here and there, and lately while I was out of the country for two stretches of 3 months each, more toys/props/clothing got added. Although I'm disappointed he ditched some of the new stuff before I came back for good, I'd have quite liked to have seen him in it, even if it is a bit scary/disconcerting for me - you know the worst bit is that he has better legs than me in hose! So it seems to have been quite easy for him to hide stuff from me - I go to bed earlier too so I'm not looking over his shoulder at his internet history either.)

Hmm, the first conversation was ok. To be honest, it came out after the him-kissing-other-girls thing - I got really upset (surprised myself by really not caring about the kissing bit, just about the hiding it - always thought I'd be more jealous than that), there was a massive bad patch for a couple of weeks, then we had the make-up talk and I asked if there was anything else he wasn't telling me, or hiding from me. Turns out there was

So I was mostly ok with it, but it was a lot to take in at once - and we were buying a house, moving away from our neighbourhood, and trying to organise a wedding, as well as me having a tough time at work - so it was a difficult couple of months leading on from there, and after the first couple of times talking about it during sex to turn each other on and once buying and trying a few lengths of rope, neither of us really pushed it. I mean, I didn't completely bury it - for Christmas last year I booked us both into a Japanese rope bondage workshop and it was a lot of fun playing with all the rope, I've just not really been interested enough to follow it up, so I've forgotten what we learned. Told him we were going go-karting, his face was a pleasure when I revealed where we were going for his Christmas present!!

I did leave him for most of the last 6 months... came back for Christmas and then for good in March. I don't know... he didn't really miss me for the first 3 months (couldn't wait for me to go away again so he could get his toys out apparently!) but since I came back this time, things have been really great, and we've been getting on better than, well, since we first moved in together. Maybe that's why this subject is on the table again now, that the atmosphere is right for it?

So that's why I'm trying to get a handle on it, because relationship wise this is as good as it's ever been. I'm just playing catch up now for the rest of it, because, well, I know you guys are telling the truth. Either I catch up and play along, or he leaves me behind for someone who will. And I really, REALLY don't want that.

L8NightQ · Apr 19, 2010

That clears a lot of it up. Maybe for you too.

In your talk space, try to get back to what makes you guys good, and then find out if he cares enough to help the relationship you share.

He's willing to talk, and that's good, so use that and find your common ground.

It's nice that at least you like half of the equation (D/s). If you guys make it thru this section of road, it might just work out. There's that old saying that to be either Dominant or submissive you have to have a little of the other living inside you. Otherwise, how could you relate?

Just don't fool yourself into believing that you'll be happy trying to support something that doesn't work for you. In the long run it will just make for a longer and more hurtful parting. That's why I suggested the part about separating for a while. You know, that whole thing about "if you love something, set it free... da de da de da and so on. If you're meant to be, you will be.

If I understand you right, you've been on and off since your teen years, and thru college. Our school and college years are where we do most of our growing, and quite a bit more when we get out on our own. It's a time when we find out who we are and what we want.
I hope he still wants you when it's all said and done..... Just keep both eyes open

By the way - kudos on the Christmas present... that was pretty cool.

sebastian · Apr 20, 2010

Wow, Vanilla, a lot to digest. I'm just gonna add my thoughts in no particular order or system

1) A relationship between a vanilla person and a kinky person can work, as long as both partners are committed to making it work, capable of openness and communication, and are willing to compromise and make sacrifices for the good of the marriage. No one gets 100% of what they want in a partner, so if your husband is willing to accept that, and you're willing to try and meet him, there is a reasonable chance you two can work it out. You might, for example, allow him to visit a pro-domme for non-sexual services you can't provide (like hardcore bondage or severe humiliation). He might agree to only engage in kink activity when you're around to observe and participate. (Personally, I think that's one of the things you need to absolutely insist on. He's shown a pattern of being willing to step outside the marriage without telling you, so were I in your shoes, I would make it clear that straying one more time will mean you will leave him. But you need to figure that boundary for yourself.)

2) Explore your dominant side; you may find a lot more there than you think. Keep in mind that he's the sub and you're the domme. You get to set whatever rules you want around sex, so set them in ways that give you want you want. You can, for example, demand that he pleasure you in whatever way you want, at whatever time you want, as frequently as you want. So if you just like vanilla sex, demand that from him, but throuw in elements of control or humiliation. "My nipples are getting bored with all that sucking. Lick my pussy instead. No, not that way! Use your lips more." You can tell him that he has to satisfy you for half an hour, and if you're pleased with the job he did, you'll spank him or tie him up or whatever. If you're not satisfied, he gets no spanking and has to try again the next night. Think about it--what woman doesn't want her husband doing exactly what she wants in bed? Don't like giving him blow jobs? Then don't until he achieves some difficult goal you've given him. Enslave him around the house--if he wants to be tied up, he needs to do the dishes or clean the kitchen. Subs ought to treat their dommes like absolute queens, so demand it from him. Notice that very little of what I've said here requires you to do anything kinky sexually. If he likes being controlled, there are a lot of things you can do that don't involve any whips or chains but which will satisfy him a lot. And you may find that you can enjoy yourself a lot this way. And you like kissing girls. So if you're the domme, you get kiss as many girls as you like, with or without him watching you. Subs are normally expected to be completely faithful to their dommes, and only get to play with others with their domme's permission. But the domme is allowed free reign to play with others as it pleases her. (That might not be the arrangement you and your husband come to, but it is extremely common, esp. in the gay community, which is what I really know best.) So set whatever rules in regard to that as you choose. Make this part of his expected submission. Being faithful to you needs to be a part of his submission to you, at least until he has rebuilt your trust him. Once you trust him more, maybe you can talk about letting him play around (either sexually or non-sexually). Find a domme who can mentor you and the three of you can play together--you get to kiss her and he just gets spanked or whatever.

3) Push your limits, but only at a pace that you and your husband agree on, and only in areas where you think you can. If you know for certain that you don't ever want to inflict pain on your husband, than don't. But before you rule something out, make sure you understand what it actually involves. To you, pain and humiliation and verbal abuse probably seem like expressions of cruelty to your husband, so it's natural that you wouldn't want to do that to him. But if he gets off on those things, they don't seem like cruelty to him; they are pure heaven. So from his perspective, hurting and humiliating him are expressions of your love for him. Even if you don't get a sexual charge from them, you may find that you can handle doing them because it's what he needs in order to stay with you. But if you understand what's involved and still can't do it, then don't. Set that as a hard limit. If you are willing to go outside your comfort zone on something, make sure that your husband understands that it's a sacrifice you are making for his happiness and the sake of your marriage. You are doing something that makes you uncomfortable out of love for him, so he ought to be very grateful to you for doing those things.

4) Talk, talk, talk. BDSM cannot work long term without good communication. Find out exactly what he wants. Let him tell you _everything_, and promise that you will listen and not react (even if what he tells you disgusts you). If he thinks you'll react badly, he won't tell you the really deep dark stuff. Remember, no matter how extreme some of his desires are, he has no control over the desires themselves--he can't help that he wants to be tied up and pissed on (just to use one possible example). He can control what he does with those desires, but not the desires themselves. Once you have listened to it all, then tell him what you can and can't do. You've listened to him, so know he has to listen to you. And just as he can't control his desires, you can't control yours. If pissing on him disgusts you, he needs to know that. You may decide that you'll piss on him occasionally, despite how it makes you feel, and he needs to be really damn grateful to you when you do it. But none of that can happen if you aren't talking openly and honestly on a regular basis. And find out why he likes this stuff. If you know why he likes getting pissed on, maybe you can find something different that will meet the same need. For example, some guys like getting pissed on because it's a statement of ownership (dogs mark their territory), so maybe there's another gesture of ownership you can make even if you can't piss on him. On the other hand, some guys like getting pissed on because it humiliates them. In that case, there's a lot of verbal abuse or forced nudity or forced feminization that might substitute. But you can't find the compromises without talking a lot.

5) You mentioned needing to learn bondage. Try Jay Wiseman's _Erotic Bondage Handbook_ for some good guidance there. There are several other books on the subject as well. So get one, read it thoroughly (especially the safety advice--there's a lot that can go wrong in more advanced bondage), and practice it on him. Start with simple stuff, like wrist and ankle ties, and gradually move up from there. Look at getting leather wrist and ankle restraints--they're easier to use than rope, and will give you some confidence to explore further. If you're in a larger city, look for a bondage master or a prodomme who might be willing to mentor you, either for free or for a fee. There are many bondage experts who give lessons because they want to see the art of bondage survive. If you can't find one locally, perhaps you can find one that you can take the occasional trip to--make a vacation of it either for yourself or you and him. Demand that he treat you like a queen on the trip and in return, you're going to learn some skills to use on him during the trip.

6) Look for your local munch. You will find lots of doms and subs who will be willing to mentor you, advise you, and support you, and they frequently stage demonstrations and training sessions. And if you decide that you can't go very far down this rabbit hole, maybe you'll find a domme who you trust enough to meet your husband's needs for you.

7) If he's doing self-bondage when you're not around, find out _exactly_ what he's been doing and insist that he always leave one hand free. Don't negotiate on this one at all. Hardcore self-bondage is _very_ risky, because it leaves one immobilized and helpless if an emergency happens. Tell him that you refuse to come home to a dead husband. I don't want to alarm you too much, especially if he is sensible enough to leave one hand free. But self-bondage includes stuff like auto-erotic asphyxiation, which is like playing a lottery to win a free trip to the morgue. So find out and set some rules. This is one area where you ought to feel free setting some rules.

7) There are lots of other threads that deal with this same issue--the vanilla spouse trying to satisfy the kinky partner. So browse the forum and read them all.
Good luck and let us know how things are going.

L8NightQ · Apr 20, 2010

A good note from Sebastian, especially about subs being completely faithful to their doms. At least try to take the path, and get your guy under control. Like I said, looks like the beast is already out. You may as well collar it.

I've got a piece I wanted to attach, but it's to large. Send me an email if you would like me and others to send you e-docs. I've got "Caring Dominatioin", which seems right up your alley, also have "Different Loving", which will help greatly in understanding the psycho-spiritual nature of D/s.

Seb - I wanna be like you when I grow up.

Maintaining a Relationship where only one partner is into BDSM...

VanillaSpouse

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sillylittlepet

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master jey

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VanillaSpouse

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L8NightQ

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master jey

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VanillaSpouse

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L8NightQ

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sebastian

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L8NightQ

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